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Ко стана? Май имаме сензационно откритие на ранен сапиенс в Европа...


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Сега остава да докажем, че е бил и етнически трако-пелас/прабългарин с българско национално самосъзнание и всички предсказания на Ванга че България ще поведе света към космоса ще се изпълнят. 

 

Шегата настрана. Дано повече хора научат това и да знаят с какво да се гордеят, а не с износа ни на праскови и кисели краставички за СССР през 69-та.

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Преди 22 минути, Kujiro said:

Сега остава да докажем, че е бил и етнически трако-пелас/прабългарин с българско национално самосъзнание и всички предсказания на Ванга че България ще поведе света към космоса ще се изпълнят. 

 

Шегата настрана. Дано повече хора научат това и да знаят с какво да се гордеят, а не с износа ни на праскови и кисели краставички за СССР през 69-та.

Само сечива за труд са намерили или и останки от човечоподобни? Но едно е сигурно. По това време климатът на балканите е бил подходящ за живуркане...

Но после иде брекситът и.....ама то е за друга тема....🍺🤑😜

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Преди 2 часа, Skubi said:

Само сечива за труд са намерили или и останки от човечоподобни? Но едно е сигурно. По това време климатът на балканите е бил подходящ за живуркане...

Но после иде брекситът и.....ама то е за друга тема....🍺🤑😜

Ами то си пише в линка, който съм дал. И става въпрос за хора (сапиенси), а не за човекоподобни.

Редактирано от Black Wolf
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В Гърция датираха останки от архаичен сапиенс на 210 000 г., но там не с въглероден анализ, а по пластове и заключенията са спорни. 

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/modern-human-skull-210000-years-old-in-greek-cave-2019-7

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То въобще е проблематично съществуването на сапиенс преди 210 хил. години... Повечето палеоантрополози са склонни да не завишават възрастта повече от 150 хил. г. максимум.

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А ето един скорошен пост по темата във ФБ група YFULL от тези дни, от който стават ясни две установени мъжки хаплогрупи Y-DNA от пещерата Бачо Киро (в миналогодишните публикации се споменаваха само женските хаплогрупи  mT-DNA на изследваните проби):

икона на значка
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  · 18 февруари в 19:11 ч.  · Dryanovo, Област Габрово  · 
 
Who were the very first Anatomically Modern Europeans? The Aurignacians.
The question is, were they like Europeans today in their Y and mtDNA, or like very different people from distant parts of Eurasia? Expect the unexpected!
New BAM files from Bacho Kiro cave in Bulgaria, from an unpublished study.
These are the same samples from the aDNA mtDNA study of Bacho Kiro cave:
These are the new male samples with high coverage:
CC7-335: 46190-45250 calBP
BB7-240: 45660-44800 calBP
Both are in pre-C1-F3393*. The oldest Modern Human Y so far, CC7-335, is F3393+ K29+ K36-. BB7-240 is F3393+ K31+ K36-.
CC7-335 and BB7-240 are both in an extinct mtDNA N* root lineage with 4113A 8155A 9456G.

C1 is found today in a tiny number of Europeans, but more so among a few people in South Asia, China, and Japan, and especially among about 80% of Australian Aboriginals and Polynesians. C1-F3393 made it as far as Hawaii and Eastern Island.
F6-597: 35750-35340 calBP is F-Y27277!
The table of the derived F-Y27277 SNPs is below. 13 F-Y27277 SNPs are derived or ambiguous, of which 9 are in YFull. 2 FTDNA SNPs in their equivalent haplogroup F-F15527, FT90068 and FT278667, are ancestral in this person.
F6-597 is mtDNA: M* with 4730T and 5315G

F-Y27277 is the earliest branch of macro-haplogroup F*. Today it's only found among the the Tibeto-Burman Lahu people of Yunnan China, a couple of Austroasiatic Vietnamese, and Austronesian-speaking Malay from Singapore, and an Indonesian. That's it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lahu_people

Oase1 from Pestera cu Oase in Romania dates to 40,450 ± 1020 calBP. He had a Neanderthal great-grandparent.
Oase1 is pre-K2a1-M2335*, like Ust'-Ishim from Siberia from about 45,000 years ago.
Z4842;M2308;V1371+ M2346;F650- Z4829-
mtDNA: pre-N* without G8901A and C9540T
K2a1-M2335 today is found in a few small branches among Dravidians of South India, and it's the parent of the main East Asian haplogroup O, probably the biggest Y haplogroup on earth, and the major North Chinese and Siberian haplogroup N. Haplogroup N only arrived in Europe from Siberia in the Iron Age, and in Europe it's extremely rare outside of Uralic-speaking people.
Kostenki14 from Ukraine from 35700 - 34700 years ago was in C-Z33130 in C1-F3393. Today this is a Y clade that is found only in China, including a Dai from Southern China.
https://yfull.com/tree/C-Z33130/
His mtDNA was U2*. U2 today is mostly found in South Asia, with a few examples from the Near East and Tibet.
Kostenki14 lived almost exactly the same time as F6-597 from Bacho Kiro Cave.
Autosomally, Kostenki14 already looks like he belongs in the later Gravettian "Dolne Vestonice" clade, but his Y and mtDNA aren't the least bit "European".

The Aurignacians were first found in the Near East, and moved to Europe not earlier than 46,000 years ago.

It's hard to imagine how a Y haplogroup, F-Y27277 that is exclusively Southeast Asian today would have been found in Europe 35,000 years ago.

F-Y27277 split from F* 48,800 years ago. C-F3393 also split from C* 48,800 years ago. This is no coincidence. This was almost exactly the time of the "H5 Event", a major rapid climate warming after millennia of an extremely cold and dry climate starting with the Toba Caldera Eruption about 71,500 years ago. (This was just about the time of the split of CT into D,E, C, and F.) C1-F3393 and D-Y27277 were among the very first Y haplogroups to leave the Near East and venture out into the main part of Eurasia. This is why we find them in areas that were settled so early like Australia, which was colonized about 40,000 years ago, and Southeast Asia which was colonized by Modern Humans even earlier.

Autosomally, the Aurignacians weren't like later Europeans. They were more like the very earliest East Asians such as Tianyuan from 40,000 years ago in North China. These early European people were autosomally most similar to peoples like the Andaman Islanders and the Papuans today.
This was what the Y-DNA of the periphery of the Near East would have looked like just after 48,000 years ago. The Anatolian Hunter Gatherer from 15,642-15,073 calBP was in C1-F3393, and some individuals from Barcin in northwest Anatolia from 8300 years ago were in C1-F3393. C1-F3393 persisted in Anatolia through the Neolithic. Today there are only 3 people in YFull in C1-F3393 of Anatolian origin. (This includes the ancestors of the Algerian.) The few European C-V20s in C1-F3393 today aren't directly descended from the ancient European hunter-gatherers like La Brana1 from Spain 8000 years ago, they're Anatolian Neolithic descendants.

F-Y27277 and K-M2335 totally vanished from Western Eurasia and haplogroup N only arrived in small numbers in Anatolia in the Middle Ages with the Turks from Central Asia. All the other Ns are of Uralic origin, except ancient IR1 from Iron Age Hungary, who is a Sarmatian from the Eastern Steppes.
The earliest European Y-DNA that is found in Europe today that dates to the Upper Paleolithic in Europe is haplogroup I*. I( only appears with haplogroup I* in the Gravettian about 31,000 years ago.

We now that P-P284 arose in Yana in far northeastern Siberia 31,630 years ago. That's where the ancestors of "European" R1a and R1b were born. P-P284, the ancestor of Q and R, wasn't anywhere near Europe at the time. When it comes to R1a, R1b, vs. C1-F3393, K2a1-M2335 and F-Y27277, things are totally flipped around.
Of all the major haplogroups, only haplogroup I* has a European origin, but it only developed much later than the Aurignacians, 16,000 years after the first Modern Humans arrived in Europe.
Could anyone have expected this before we had ancient DNA?

I submitted all these sequences to YFull. At the least, F6-597 has very high coverage and will be good enough for YFull.

Here's the Aurignacian cave art of Bacho Kiro. They were the very first artists in Europe. It's remarkably detailed. Have a close look at the "lions". There's also the image of the lower half of a woman who also has steatopygia like the later Gravettians and some Bushmen women in recent times.
The Aurignacians "signed" their cave walls and paintings with hand prints.
"We were here". They were real living people, the very first Europeans, and now we know who they actually were.
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